I developed that concept into a production called Mashapalooza. This is way back in the day. But Beethoven and Beyoncé were the marquee artists, the king and the queen of the festival. And through that production, I thought, “There’s something here to this Beethoven and Beyoncé thing. It feels like something more could be explored.” Because in that first version, it was just 10 minutes of a full show.
Then, when Beyoncé released “Cowboy Carter,” I had such a supreme appreciation of her as this concept album artist. And when you think of Beethoven, let’s just take the fifth, sixth and seventh symphonies, they’re so unmistakably Beethoven but each with its own unique characteristics. It’s almost like he was the first concept album artist. So I thought there’s a lot here to explore.
Also just the idea that symphony orchestras play the music of all these great and mostly deceased composers. Of course, they play music of contemporary living composers, but they don’t play Beyoncé’s music . They don’t play Kendrick Lamar . I think those artists are just as essential as John Adams, or Arvo Part or, you know, pick your modern composer.
How a conductor goes about blending Beyoncé and Beethoven
So once you arrive at the concept, does it kind of write itself in terms of what songs by the pop artist will work with that composer’s work?
I try to include all of what I consider to be the essential songs in the artist’s catalog. I’ll throw in a few maybe for my own personal tastes. And there might be a few that work simply because of the uniqueness of this pairing, that might have a specific similarity.
I definitely wouldn’t say it writes itself. But as I’m choosing songs, I’m kind of, you might say, dog-earring things, like, “OK, this, I think, is gonna work in the second movement.” Like “Halo” by Beyoncé, I always knew I’m gonna put that in the second movement of the Beethoven. That’s the emotional heart of that work. And to me, “Halo” is her most emotional song.
I knew where I wanted “Formation” to go. I knew where I wanted “Girls” to go. But then there were a host of other songs where I was like, “I gotta find a place for this.”
So how do you go about putting it together?
I’m a pianist, so once I’m familiar with all the source material, through all this listening, I’ll go to the piano, open up the Beethoven score, and there’ll be some structural moments where I’ll know, “OK, this is roughly where I want to insert this song.” But otherwise, it’s an improvisational act at the piano where I’m playing the Beethoven, starting to think, “OK, how can I start to layer this in?”
And I start to embellish on the Beethoven, depart from the Beethoven and try to start working in Beyoncé’s melodies and harmonies. So it’s very improvisational. And then once I have sort of a road map through that improvisation, I start to actually score and move from the piano to the scoring software.
So you’re writing segues in and out of different pieces?
Very much so, yeah. This piece is interesting in that it opens with almost, like, an overture, because the Beethoven symphony has a sizable, three-minute introduction, a very famous orchestral passage. And I married to that introduction as many Beyoncé songs as I could, almost like a Broadway overture.
I tease as many melodies from the songs we’ll eventually hear and I layer them within that Beethoven introduction. So this one really starts with them very much coexisting. But from there, it’s this dance that we do where we’re moving along with the Beethoven, then I create some segue-type material and we go into the fusion of the Beethoven and Beyoncé.
Sometimes we’re hearing more or less an orchestration of a Beyoncé song, meaning you recognize the musical material as being sort of hers the way she wrote it. But sometimes I completely reinvent her music to accommodate harmonies of Beethoven’s or melodies of Beethoven’s. So there’s all these different permutations that we’re always traveling between.
How Beyoncé fans and symphonygoers respond to the mashup
How would you say a Beyoncé fan is likely to respond to what you’re doing compared to a regular symphonygoer? I’m sure they’re coming at it from different perspectives.
Well, your Beyoncé fan is a person who’s familiar with popular music techniques. The idea of fusions or remixes or mashups, that’s part of pop culture right now.
So those Beyoncé fans, the amazing opportunity there, of course, is first of all, to deepen their connection to Beyoncé’s music by enriching her music with this orchestration, taking a song like “Texas Hold ‘Em” and arranging it for orchestra. That’s an amazing experience.
But then, of course, introducing that Beyoncé fan to Beethoven’s music and hopefully opening a door that they will maybe want to go through again, in their life, towards classical music. And finally, through this combination, maybe revealing something about a Beyoncé song that’s new to them.
There’s all these opportunities to deepen their connection to Beyoncé and then introduce them to the symphony orchestra.
I would say the same applies to your classical listener, though your classical listener is probably going to be coming at it with less of a familiarity of today’s popular music practices, remixing and mashing up and all those things. So I think it’s going to be even more jarring for them, but potentially really exciting.
For as many people that come up to me saying, “I came for Beyoncé; now I’m pumped about Beethoven” or “I didn’t imagine you would ever do that with her music,” I’ve got as many people on the other side saying, “I’ve been coming to the symphony for 75 years, since I was a kid, and I’ve been waiting for something new, for somebody to sort of inject some modernism into this and recontextualize this music.”
How do you go about finding the vocalists and outside musicians for this?
When I find a vocalist or a guitarist, a drummer, a bass player, a keyboardist who can straddle these two worlds, who has the technical background and proficiency to hang with the Beethoven side of things but then is an authentic artist on the quote, unquote pop side, I hang on pretty tight, because they’re rare.
So through the years of doing this, I’ve met a lot of people. There are several that play in numerous shows of mine because they’re just great. And there are some that are right for one specific thing. Sometimes I hear a voice, and I’ll write for that voice, like Malia (Civetz) in this show. I’ve worked with her for years now, and I write for her voice because I know what she does and she brings so much.
Getting symphony musicians on board with pop music mashups
Are the symphony members pretty game for this?
That’s been a journey. I can tell you that 10 years ago they weren’t (laughs). I would say on average, they weren’t. And on average now they are. This was a battle, I’ll be honest, to get this over the hump. The headwinds that I faced in the beginning, just because people were so shocked and appalled that anyone would do something like this, were considerable.
But luckily, audiences from the very beginning were coming and reacting so positively that, probably despite musicians’ wishes in the orchestra, the administrations of the orchestras were having me back.
And over time, I think the work now has a certain reputation, and players know that I respect them and this is all to try to shine a spotlight on who they are and what they do, what we all do with classical music. But also, times have changed. It’s different now than it was 10 years ago.
In the classical music world, we’re now aware that we’ve got to maybe borrow some tricks from the popular music world. We’ve got to be better about messaging. We’ve got to be better at media. We’ve got to, certainly, above all, be more open-minded where our audience and our community is concerned. And we need to make sure we’re speaking to everybody.
And you came to this from a classical background ?
Right. I trained at the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia. My degree was in conducting, with a heavy emphasis in composition and counterpoint. I started to go down the straight-ahead-to-conducting road, the journey to being a music director.
And within a year of doing that, looking out at the audiences and being so curious about all musical forms and so interested in popular music myself, being a composer and a songwriter and a producer, I thought, “I need to find a way to do something that’s more authentic to who I am that can open up the accessibility for classical music to more people.” So I’m glad I found this.
‘They know the Beethoven symphony. It’s in their fingers.’
What else about this production do you think is important for people to know?
I would just underscore that this is all possible because of orchestras like the Phoenix Symphony. They know the Beethoven symphony. It’s in their fingers.
So their starting place of familiarity is so high that somebody like me can come in and say, “OK, we’re gonna do the Beethoven symphony at the highest level. But now we’re gonna add this all on top.”
And although it was hard at first with orchestras, now, it’s pretty easy, to be honest. It’s actually fun.
So now, when they’re looking at the music as it’s going from Beethoven into Beyoncé, they’re expecting it and they’re OK with it?
For the most part, yeah. You’re never gonna please everybody. But orchestras have gotten younger too. There’s a lot of people in the orchestra that are younger than me. There’s probably a 28-year-old player in the orchestra who grew up listening to Beyoncé. So that’s fun for that person. I’ll see in their face, like, “Oh my God, we’re doing “Crazy in Love'” or whatever.
And I think, above all, the orchestra looks out and sees the audience, and they see, “Oh my gosh.” Like, “It’s amazing that we’re talking to these people, that we’re creating this experience for these people.” It’s such a different audience than they’re used to, and that’s a privilege for me to be able to try to bring to them.
And by bringing these people in with Beyoncé as a calling card, you’re turning them on to Beethoven. What could be better than that?
Exactly. It’s usually a sold-out crowd, and they’re on their feet and screaming at the end. For the orchestra. Those people that are passionate Beyoncé fans that come in, they see the orchestra, and they truly appreciate it on a really profound level.
Beethoven x Beyoncé
When: 7:30 p.m. Friday and Saturday, May 30-31.
Where: Symphony Hall, 75 N. Second St., Phoenix.
Admission: $35 and up.
Details: 602-262-6225; phoenixsymphony.org .
